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View Full Version : Zen wants a tank! BAD!



Zen
10-28-2009, 04:10 PM
Ok guys....although I know that these things cost alot of treasure to build, and treasure is something that is sorely lacking in my world right now....I want to start a discussion about building an airsoft tank so that I can hash out ideas, get feedback, and have a plan in place for when I can start a build.

TYPES OF AIRSOFT TANKS

There are several different types of vehicle that can be built / converted into a tank for airsoft games. I will just touch on the most common ones here.

PUG TANK (Panzer Ultraleicht Gepack)

These ultralight personal armored vehicles are people powered...either with pedals like a kids toy, or by simply walking inside the tank. Made of plywood and operated by a single player, these tanks are considered "light tanks" by most fields that allow them. They are cheap to build and easy to transport...some of them even disassemble for transport.
http://www.stonegryphon.com/104-0430_IMG2.JPG
<thanks to Stone Gryphon Studio>


Buggy/Tank (FAV or Light Tank)

Built on gas powered "buggy" or go cart chassis, these are a popular type of tank in our area. Mack from 1st NC has several of these, and they are quite rugged and manage to travel the fields well. They can be soft sided (net cover only) and used as FAV's, or have hard sides (usually plywood or fiberglas) and are then considered light tanks.
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/1669/tank8kg.jpg
http://bradschmid.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/tank_b.jpg

ELECTRIC TANKS

Built on an electric golf cart chassis, these tanks are cheaper and quieter than buggy based tanks, and yet...due to the high torque of the golf cart motors, can be just as effective as the gas powered buggy based tanks.
This is my favorite..
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1157/ssa2002jumbo0024.jpg
More to come...stay tuned!


Zen

Karma
10-28-2009, 04:59 PM
Zen,

I have Autocad Drawings and Specifications for a tank, quadmount, and just finished construction drawings for a M113 APC/ACAV (I just posted some of the plans in the General Threads). Most of the are a 75% scale to the orginal. Also, because of weight, I use aluminum and 1/2" marine plywood.

I hope to have a 'turn key' set of drawings and specs ready for at least 6 armored vehicles by the end of December.

I am actually building the M113 myself now.

Zen
10-28-2009, 05:37 PM
Cool beans Karma....looking forward to following your progress!


To continue this discussion....the last group is:

Motor Vehicle based Tank

As it sounds, these tanks are made on existing or modified car /truck chassis, utilizing the existing motor and drive train. While some are just a bit off wood panels on the original frame, others are very intricate semi scale vehicles.
http://www.fuldagap.com/images/accents/homeaccent_tank.gif
http://www.cdpaintball.com/grommit.jpg
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9936/sherman1.png

A fourth catagory would be tanks made from scratch, including those with custom chassis and engines. These tanks can get quite expensive if you dont have welding and machining resources available to you.


The tank I am interested in building is the gofl cart based Sherman Jumbo. It has a short wheelbase and tall profile, very well suited to a golf cart based fighting vehicle. It will come in at about 1/3 scale, and hopefully look about what the sherman tank pictured in the previous post looks like.

I am desiging this now, with an eye towards real tracks and dual motors for better traction and hill climbing, and realism of course. Here is the tank I am using for reference...
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/421/shermanfirefly.png

Kamikaze
10-28-2009, 05:44 PM
Also, because of weight, I use aluminum and 1/2" marine plywood.


Instead of the plywood, I recommend fiberglass sheet. Home improvement stores sell 4x8 sheets with gel-coat on one side for shower walls. The Argo 8wheeler that is present out in California used an aluminum frame with those sheet for the panels. It is lighter and much more durable than plywood.

I have a bunch of pics of the BlackFox Argo out in California including construction pics...

Zen
10-28-2009, 05:51 PM
Tank treads will probably be built using a similar method to this one shown here....
http://www.gizmology.net/images/tank07.jpg

Instead of wood, I think I could use some of that "plastic" planking that is used for decks...made from recycled plastic. Its hard, its impervious to cold, it wears well...and drills and machines like wood.
---Update---

Instead of the plywood, I recommend fiberglass sheet. Home improvement stores sell 4x8 sheets with gel-coat on one side for shower walls. The Argo 8wheeler that is present out in California used an aluminum frame with those sheet for the panels. It is lighter and much more durable than plywood.

I have a bunch of pics of the BlackFox Argo out in California including construction pics...

That idea is fine for that tank Kami...but I'll bet you cant climb on the roof. The plywood would allow you to enter from the top hatch as well as the bottom...Like Octane's tank. U can climb on that all day and it doesnt even creak!

Zen

Kamikaze
10-28-2009, 05:54 PM
Probably not with his current build, but a small adjustment to the framework he used, it could easily be accomplished...

Plus with the Argo base, they offer rubber tank treads ready to fit the machine....

Romeo98
10-28-2009, 05:57 PM
Wow... I think we're witnessing the birth of Tanksoft!!

Kamikaze
10-28-2009, 05:58 PM
I found the renders during one of my tank searches years ago...

Both are based on using the Argo 8-wheel ATV as a chassis.

Zen
10-28-2009, 06:01 PM
Like so.....just add tracks. Built on an old argocat.
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2176/argoshermantrailer.jpg

Kamikaze
10-28-2009, 06:08 PM
Here is one with the tracks on...

It's amazingly hard to find a good functional pic of the 8x8 argo with tracks...

TC
10-28-2009, 06:13 PM
Argos are not cheep, there is one for sale in white lake though, with tracks

Kamikaze
10-28-2009, 06:16 PM
I've seen them go for as little as $1500 on Ebay, though you do have to spend more to get it here....

Riddle of Steel
10-28-2009, 06:53 PM
From what I have seen in the field a two man unit is the best. One guy to drive and maybe operate the main gun when stopped and one guy on the turret. If you don't you will be a sitting duck for us peons with cheap launchers.

We have a John Deere 318 hydraulic garden tractor that is kinda great big riding mower on steroids. It has an on board hydraulic system, heavy 12 volt battery and charger and a twin I-beam frame. The problem is I have NO attachments for it. I only have about 300.00 in the tractor and it runs great with a two cylinder 18 HP Briggs engine. Any attachments will cost an arm and a leg so my guys are eager to build a mini tank based on its stripped down frame. I figure a fiberglass body over an aluminum frame with a stand up turret with double saws at the back were the power lift and trailer hitch is and a big PVC gun on front for the driver to use to fire rockets or big Nerf footballs. We are currently discussing a 12v compressor and a reservoir tank to dump compressed air from. The only glitch so far is the main gun will have to be breech load.

Humm..........:?:

Legs
10-28-2009, 08:51 PM
Instead of wood, I think I could use some of that "plastic" planking that is used for decks...made from recycled plastic. Its hard, its impervious to cold, it wears well...and drills and machines like wood.



I wouldn't recommend that stuff. It doesn't do well in tension.

If I was going to build a tank with my money, I'd start with a 4x4 vehicle and work from there.

Toxic
10-28-2009, 09:21 PM
Instead of wood, I think I could use some of that "plastic" planking that is used for decks...made from recycled plastic. Its hard, its impervious to cold, it wears well...and drills and machines like wood.

Zen

It is good, but isnt that stuff pretty expensive?

I like the tank idea you are doing, just a small scale model of a real tank, i really dont like that first tank tho. The one man walking powered tank is kinda of just a joke. Dont get me wrong id love to see an entire team come to a game with a bunch of those to get a laugh but i just couldnt take them serious. Hopefully when i get out of college and get a decent job i want to turn my beat up truck into some kinda APC but its got a lot of work just to get it strong enough for the extra weight.

Smirnov
10-28-2009, 09:28 PM
Here is one of the 2 styles we are considering. The BRDM-2 because tracks may be too much bother.http://www.military.cz/army_cr/modernizace/pics/brdm-2vr.jpg

Maybe a multi rocket version?
http://www.trapperindustries.com/vehicles/BRDM2%20sagger.jpg
http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/russia/missile_vehicle/brdm-2_spandrel/brdm-2_spandrel_antitank_wheeled_armoured_vehicle_640.j pg

JHBell
10-28-2009, 11:24 PM
Someone needs to host a Mad Max game.

Zen
10-28-2009, 11:57 PM
Here is one of the 2 styles we are considering. The BRDM-2 because tracks may be too much bother.http://www.military.cz/army_cr/modernizace/pics/brdm-2vr.jpg

Maybe a multi rocket version?
http://www.trapperindustries.com/vehicles/BRDM2%20sagger.jpg
http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/russia/missile_vehicle/brdm-2_spandrel/brdm-2_spandrel_antitank_wheeled_armoured_vehicle_640.j pg

Trog..I have been wondering about a 4 wheel type as well. The reason my tank would HAVE to be a go cart or golf cart based design is A) it can be transported on your basic $800 landscape trailer, and B) its a whole lot cheaper and simpler.

How big of a wheel can you put on a golf cart without busting the axles? Something like these could certainly be built on a golf cart club car sized chassis if you put 20" or so tires on it..
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3646/ba6leftsmall.jpg
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/4683/dsc03039mz1.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5392/humbermki.png

As Riddle said, a 2 or even 3 man crew is ideal. Remember, club cars can hold up to EIGHT golfers and bags.....weight wouldnt be an issue.
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/11721983/Golf_Cart_6_Seat_Resort_Car.jpg

smokinloon
10-29-2009, 12:03 AM
Hey zen, i work at a warrenty repair place for power equipment and we have a ton of carter buggys and fox buggys like what mack uses, if your lookin to buy let me know because i can probably find you one pretty cheap.

Zen
10-29-2009, 12:22 AM
Hey zen, i work at a warrenty repair place for power equipment and we have a ton of carter buggys and fox buggys like what mack uses, if your lookin to buy let me know because i can probably find you one pretty cheap.

The other reasons for golf cart designs are..

They have reverse..

you can make them "skid steer" by using one motor for each side.

Cant do that with a buggy. Buggys are great for FAV's, but putting a scale'ish tank body on them would be problematic for the above reasons I think.

LiLEviL USMC
10-29-2009, 12:38 AM
Wow, tanks seem to be growing fast in popularity.....Time to seriously put some anti armor guerrilla warfare in Raptor 1's training schedule lol. That or start making some cheap ass recoiless rifles.

Zen
10-29-2009, 12:43 AM
Doug...the Fulda game always has this effect ;)

Me personally, I know that I will never be the run&gun player that the younger guys are. Armor seems like a good fit for me (with the exception of the cost involved). I'm also pretty handy with tools and have built several electric vehicles in the past. My biggest problem is I am stubborn when it comes to scale. Macks tanks are innovative and effective, and great fun on top of that....but I'd like something that looks and operates more like a tank. If it takes 5 years to build...so be it ..lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXuUVgRVnSY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U42d2xSn1Zk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LxTSaaZVGk&feature=related

This is a bit long, but it shows how far paintballers are ahead of us when it comes to armor!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKHjQlryWik&feature=related

Toxic
10-29-2009, 01:12 AM
Wow, tanks seem to be growing fast in popularity.....Time to seriously put some anti armor guerrilla warfare in Raptor 1's training schedule lol. That or start making some cheap ass recoiless rifles.

Nah you dont have to worry to much all you gotta do is throw a bag at a tank(satchel charge) that has the word explosive on it and call it a day. I took out 3 tanks with it at Fulda.

Zen
10-29-2009, 01:20 AM
Toxic...thats because the tanks at Fulda didnt use ANY tank type tactical maneuvers...they didnt travel with infantry support. Once our sport evolves to what you see in those vids...it wont be so easy! ;)

ThumpMaster6
10-29-2009, 12:08 PM
Toxic..Once our sport evolves to what you see in those vids...it wont be so easy! ;)

Exactly! I saw very little infantry support or combined-arms coordination this year. Frankly, we (WP) were so far ahead on Saturday afternoon we didn't even do ONE attack where we combined EVERYTHING, a-la real Soviet tactics:

At Fulda '08, we ran one attack against Fire Base Alpha where we coordinated an airstrike, a chemical attack, a 2-pronged infantry assault WITH rocket launchers as bunker-busters, AND added a tank/Armored Car attack. (that big 6-wheeler that was parked on the hill this year.) It was a thing of beauty...made me shiver watching it, 'cause you just KNEW it was going to throw NATO out of the base!

The closest we got this year ('09) was a piecemeal assault there, with no armor, an airstrike that came in too early, and then got shoved out of the base, and had to re-assault it. Good base defense. But the "tanks" this time just drove around like big mobile targets, got smacked...some of them "penetrated" by Nerfs....and then drove back for a long respawn. When they weren't breaking down, and needing a jump or tow.

But, run some of the tactics in that video, AND let the bunkers have some armored turrets with cannons or MG/Miniguns to fire back at vehicles...or have their own Nebelwerfers/Mortars to protect the armor...and you've got a whole new ballgame!

Build them...and we will buy...oh yes, we will buy. I want one of the Nebelwerfers ASAP...and am working with someone down here to try to make one that is air-cannon based....but the more I look at those rockets and the firecracker-ler bomb effects...MAN!!!!

Thumpy...still hasn't led the perfect ambush.....OVER

Zen
10-29-2009, 01:30 PM
Lol Thumps...I know what you mean. Those arial-effect cracklers gave me a stiffy.

I know about NCAO rules, but the truth is...if a field owner knows you, trusts you, and you work with them regularly...at least SOME of the "effects" that we see in the games overseas might be usable here. It wont ever be allowed for just any avarage player ( I'm talking pyrotechnics), but Ferg has a "certification" that guys have to go through to show they can drive a tank on his field. The same type of thing for arty isnt unreasonable. One thing that immediately comes to mind, is smoke cannisters that are fired by M203's or arty.....that would be just TOO cool.


Zen

Toxic
10-29-2009, 05:03 PM
Very true i didnt think about that, one of the tanks was just sitting next to rex in the open, no where near another green guy.

One thing ive seen in some videos is that people can get next to the tank and use it as cover. With the ten foot rule you die if you're to close. I know its for safety and insurance reasons but isnt that the point for tanks sometimes, "mobile cover".

i would love to see people actually work with the tank and protect it, not just run(or cower)behind it. but with people running along side a tank like its supposed to be wont you maybe get into another safety issue which is possibly hitting another player with a nerf? i know ill get over it, its a small foam football yeah it might give you a little thud but some people might get pretty pissed.

rusty65
10-29-2009, 08:24 PM
Airsoft with vehicles, pyros and a suprise at 1:54.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQL0zs-iQas

Toxic
10-29-2009, 09:00 PM
I wish airsoft was like that here. And at about 2:26 is it me or did the guy in the black beanie get hit in the head and not call it?

ThumpMaster6
10-29-2009, 09:04 PM
FV 432, I believe...nice find Rust-man!

NOW THAT'S ARMOR. And, i've got a line on one of those mini-trucks down here...maybe THAT's the ticket for a convoy or mini-APC...put the chassis on one of those little Mitsubishi pickups, with the top and sides lowered!

Hem......more planning ahead!

Thumpo....OVER

rusty65
10-29-2009, 09:17 PM
Back in 2007 I played a large game at a site that also did off-roading experiences on the land. We had game marshall's driving land rover defenders and other 4x4 vehicles. They also provided cover when one of the 3 teams were struggling for an objective and there were one or two with a M249 on a pintle mount to stir things up. They kept mostly to the trails that existed.

Granted it wasn't a realistic scenario, but it did spice things up. I'd like to see our hobby develop a bit more so we have more fun toys. The tanks at fulda are definately a step in the right direction.

Urban Assault has 2 tanks, but both are non-functional and used as ojectives.