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Pilgrim
02-13-2010, 08:14 PM
When looking at the NCAO as a whole, amongst the different debates many of our community's members have with one another, the ongoing struggle to outline Camo color (Green vs. Tan) in games is one that stands out. Classifying each and every type of camo into either green or tan can become quite tedious, and in the end it still remains ambiguous on the field (such as ACU). To remedy this, I propose a system of armbands (Blue and Yellow) with which to tell apart the respective teams. Using armbands (preferably one on each arm, and even possibly on one's legs) would immediately rectify the debate over which camo is on which side, and provides a myriad of benefits to the game itself. (Forgive the long post to come; I have a tendancy to do such things :D)

Armbands allow for a more milsim feel to games. Airsoft players in the UK have already put them into effect with slim-to-no complaint whatsoever. In actual military operations different countries don't designate color camos to their troops. They work on target acquisition to be able to identify at a glance whether the person in front of you is an ally or enemy. Shouldn't we take this small step towards a more realistic game as well? At a recent Winds of Change game, there were so many green players that they completely threw color out of the equation and had us rely on target acquisition. Having met some of my teammates just five minutes prior, I still had little to no issue telling which person was who because I took a good look around pre-game. Combine this with a challenge/password, and you should be able to accurately identify a person every time.

Most all of us have attended at least one game in our airsoft careers in which either green or tan was outnumbered, often several times over. With the implementation of these colored armbands, one team outnumbering another would no longer be an issue. Pre-Game, half the participants are issued a set of 'blues' and the other half 'yellows' (or if you wanted small on large force, you could vary the numbers to your liking!). This method eliminates unfair advantages/disadvantages and makes for a more enjoyable experience overall (and lets face it, we grow tired of the constant numbers-bashing in the AAR section! :P).

Teams are an essential part of the NCAO. We have upwards of 15 recognized teams here in North Carolina, with each laying claim to a different 'team camo'. While some of these have a green and a tan variant, there are a select few (ACU, Multicam, etc comes to mind) that are not able to be worn on both sides. With armbands, each respective team can wear whatever camo they want without worrying about changing. This puts some money back into the pockets of the players (albeit only ~$30, but I think that's better than nothing!) and allows for a wider range of versatility in the dress of the teams. Even individually, armbands allow players to deck out their kits in a fashion they perfer (because airsoft is half looking the part :laugh:). This also allows walk-on independents the ability to wear whatever camo they want without fear.

What are the downsides to armbands? Well, because they only cover a small portion of your arm, the bands could be seen only from certain angles. There are instances where you may only be able to see a players head; you cannot tell whether they are blue or yellow. But how is this different than if in a green vs tan game, you only see a player's head, and he/she is not wearing any sort of head-cover? Color distinctions? (say a person wears a navy-blue band) If the bands were issued by the fields themselves, one would not have to worry about such a thing! Other than these (and other minute details) issues with the bands, I can see no other reason why they SHOULDN'T be instituted (of course I welcome any other viewpoints- I am but one man)

Ronin
02-13-2010, 08:34 PM
Personally, I'd love to see the NCAO get away from Green/Tan, but it's not likely to happen. I do like other camos that are gray and black, as well as PMC loadouts, real Afghan loadouts, etc. However, I doubt many people want to change.

What I would really like, as it would be perhaps most scientific and non-disputable as well as being helpful is to devise a way of light amplification rating based on certain camouflage patterns. That is to say, how does each camo reflect light. There are actual ways to measure this where a standard measurement of light(foot candles possibly?) as well as distance to the light can be shown against a camouflage pattern in a controlled environment, and if we somehow made a cutoff point, like say anything over 12 whatever units of measure is "dark", anything less than 9 is "light", but anything rated a 10 or 11 would not be allowed. This would make things like target acquisition much faster, as well as hopefully balancing out some of the teams a bit. The one big potential drawback would be how lighter patterns might make for less natural camouflage. Also, any new camouflage that comes out or is issued could be used with the same test to determine where it stands, so everyone knows immediately, thus avoiding issues like some have with ACU or Multicam.

What do any of you think of that? Just an idea I thought I'd throw out there at you guys!

Vishius
02-13-2010, 08:40 PM
honestly i hate armbands. we use them at out local field, and sometimes you just cant see the arm band. making target acquisition somewhat difficult. i like the measurement of light idea but to be fair, it just seems like a more complicated version of the system we already use. also i have a feeling that the system proposed eliminates multicam, which many of the community members have spent countless dollars in equipping themselves with. if we do a new system, i say tricolor woodlands v tricolor desserts, just like irene. end of story.

Thunderstorm
02-13-2010, 08:40 PM
The Green/Tan issue is the one thing that bugs me about airsoft in general. I don't mind arm-bands either.

Fluke
02-13-2010, 09:06 PM
I see this as being a bigger problem than it already is if we change. You think it's bad now, people are so trigger happy that with armbands people will just blast each other then we wi have to go through 10 pages of a aar thread with not being able to identify being the number two problem right behind hit calling. Much like the TLC the green/tan May not be the best but it's works the best overall

Rico
02-13-2010, 09:10 PM
Much like the TLC the green/tan May not be the best but it's works the best overall

Agreed.

xghostmakerx
02-13-2010, 09:27 PM
Agreed.

+1 ....

Zechs
02-13-2010, 11:18 PM
Agreed. From what I've seen, it's pretty well laid out. If it looks green, it's green. If it looks tan, it's tan. ACU has been debated over and over again and it's been decided that it counts as tan.

Austin Houk
02-14-2010, 12:27 AM
Agreed.

+2,

Also there are those who would cover it up or lean out to only reveal their weapon and head, hiding the bands, making it impossible to tell whose team they were on until they blasted a burst your way. Fail

Win
02-14-2010, 08:52 AM
Green and tan is a great way to see who is on what team. I like the way we are doing it now. As far as helping out just get a tan or green hat. You are not allowed to blind fire so you have to be looking down your sites to shoot. That means you head has to be seen as well. Now if you have on a green hat or a brown/tan hat then how hard is it to tell what team you are on?
On another note we tried this at a realmil where we had three team on the field. One had on woodland marpat, One had on MC, the last had on Woodland. Funny thing was we did not have a friendly fire the whole game. If players would not be so fast to shoot and take more time to be sure of their target then there is not a problem.
Arm bands end up looking like a stip of string that is tied around the arm. Hard to see and some players even try to hide it. I just don't see them working.
But as said we tried the hat idea and it worked well in seeing who was no each team. Tan had on a brown hat and green a green hat. It is cheap and works great.

Pilgrim
02-14-2010, 09:43 AM
I appreciate all the feedback, guys! Apparently there were quite a few things I overlooked, but I suppose that's why we pose them as ideas, yeah? :laugh:

Twitch
02-14-2010, 10:33 AM
I personally would be for trying out the arm band system at a WoC event just to see what would actually happen instead of just postulating what will and wont happen. I played paintball for many years where this is the only system we used and we did just fine.

Pilgrim
02-14-2010, 11:25 AM
I'd be absolutely willing to try and get Bandit to enstate a few armband WoC games to test proof of concept! As long as people were informed beforehand and came in with an open mind to the game, I think a lot of the criticisms on the AAR section would be reduced overall.

Smirnov
02-14-2010, 11:47 AM
It is interestinting that we ar looking at this as Ease over Skill. The first 100 player game i went to back aboout 2002 we had the following uniform regs, US = woodland & Marpat, everything else=Terrorist. That included tiger stripe flectarn ect. We played the game and all went well. If you lit your own guys up it counted agianst you greatly ( Not as bad as in the Real world) You want an easy game over one of skill? It seem to me that many ( but not all) Want to dress the part, Talk the Talk, but not Walk the walk.
I am all fo asigning dark patterns, You have no brite tans or dark that make it easy for you, You need to think then pull the trigger. I can remember being opfor in training, OD green VS woodland , and later Woodland with kevlar VS woodland with the jacket inside -out and a patroll cap. It made it a challenge to make sure that you are about engage the right people.
I may be older, fat, and half crippled up now days, But i want a game of skill over one of ease.
just my.02

Twitch
02-14-2010, 12:56 PM
Well my reasoning at least behind the armbands is less on the whole being able to identify target, and more to make it easier for game staff to assign more evenly balanced teams (numbers wise). It used to be that tan was always outnumbered by green, but now that is starting to switch the other way. The thing is the armbands would allow game organizers the ability to make sides not based on the color of uniform you brought that day, but by the number of people who come. I personally have no problems with identifying green from tan.

Pilgrim
02-14-2010, 01:24 PM
Well my reasoning at least behind the armbands is less on the whole being able to identify target, and more to make it easier for game staff to assign more evenly balanced teams (numbers wise). It used to be that tan was always outnumbered by green, but now that is starting to switch the other way. The thing is the armbands would allow game organizers the ability to make sides not based on the color of uniform you brought that day, but by the number of people who come. I personally have no problems with identifying green from tan.

Exactly. I didnt even have a problem identifying MARPAT from Woodland while playing. If anything, the armbands would increase the skill of players, MAKING them look before they shoot. If armbands were implemented there would be no more "Tan was outnumbered" banter in the AAR, but it may be substituted for "I couldn't tell who was who". Whilst one will always be an issue (Tan or green being outnumbered) unless every player brings both sets of camo, the other plan will eventually get better as the skill of the players increases.

Okuto
02-14-2010, 05:50 PM
oh goodness how I'd love armbands then I could wear my black SS officer's uniform to battle without any problems, I'm trapped with wearing my field grey with the current rule set. Alot of my teammates have black kits that they can't use with the current rule set.

So yes please, my goodness it'd make life easier for all of us and we'd have some more interesting kits out there

phishhead
02-14-2010, 06:32 PM
oh goodness how I'd love armbands then I could wear my black SS officer's uniform to battle without any problems, I'm trapped with wearing my field grey with the current rule set. Alot of my teammates have black kits that they can't use with the current rule set.

So yes please, my goodness it'd make life easier for all of us and we'd have some more interesting kits out there

I don't think the arm band would help if you were in an SS officers outfit, I think both teams would want to shoot you.

Smirnov
02-14-2010, 06:42 PM
oh goodness how I'd love armbands then I could wear my black SS officer's uniform to battle without any problems, I'm trapped with wearing my field grey with the current rule set. Alot of my teammates have black kits that they can't use with the current rule set.

So yes please, my goodness it'd make life easier for all of us and we'd have some more interesting kits out there
Besides the color regs this needs to beconsidered.
That depends of the type of black uniform, If it is a Panzer Wrap, then fine. If it is Algemine SS, do all of us a favor, and do not wear it to any Field. I have been doing Reenacting of ww2 for a lot of years. If you want to draw too much unwanted attention the Black Algemine uniform is the best way to get it. Wearing the Death camp uniform/Gestopo Uniform, is a BIG NO-NO in reenacting. It will get many groups including the JDL wanting to shut you and the games down. It has happened before. Besides the Black Algemine uniform was never a combat uniform. There has never been a photo of that uniform used in combat.
Feldgrau of the Waffen SS is anothe question, as that is a warrior's uniform.

Karma
02-14-2010, 07:47 PM
I think Tan and Green work. I would also say to some, learn your camo and learn to verify a target prior to fire!!

Austin Houk
02-14-2010, 07:49 PM
I don't think the arm band would help if you were in an SS officers outfit, I think both teams would want to shoot you.

I say anyone who wants to do that anyway is a complete toolbox. Wearing that uniform at least. AND I agree. Green or Tan, I see you, I aim to kill. Headshots on anyone who is dressed like an idiot. The wearing of a black based camo is enough reason to be kicked off a field anyway.

Smirnov
02-14-2010, 08:44 PM
Well, WWII airsoft takes off in NC, you as a group will have to decide what will wash and what will not be allowed. WWII Reenacting and Airsoft, are very Politically incorrect. It can be done without getting the public's panties in a bunch. I have hosted 10 reenactments and 1 wwii airsoft. As politically incorrect as I can be, I never got the Ire of any group. Something to think about as most people will see wwII airsoft But judge ALL Airsoft by any negitive actions.
Personnaly WWII Airsoft is a bigger blast because of the Roleplay aspect, But it is something that needs nurtured and cared for to not grow in an adverse direction.

Twitch
02-14-2010, 09:19 PM
I think Tan and Green work. I would also say to some, learn your camo and learn to verify a target prior to fire!!

Its less of the tan v green issue and more of side balance issues.

Twitch
02-14-2010, 09:29 PM
oh goodness how I'd love armbands then I could wear my black SS officer's uniform to battle without any problems, I'm trapped with wearing my field grey with the current rule set. Alot of my teammates have black kits that they can't use with the current rule set.

So yes please, my goodness it'd make life easier for all of us and we'd have some more interesting kits out there

I am Jewish and I would strongly object to this I am sorry.

rusty65
02-14-2010, 09:57 PM
Just my 2 cents here.

Back in 2007 I went to a game with 3 teams, 800+ players and the only team markers were small colored rectangles of plastic that were hung off our kit. The only friendly fire incidents I knew of were from players who would not call out their color when challenged in extremely thick undergrowth.

I've also played smaller games at an urban site with colored duct tape for armbands with 100+ players in a disused RAF airbase with tight corridors. Also with few problems with friendly fire.

All it takes is a little more target identification, which I'm sure we all do anyway (Especially with some camo colors being hard to distinguish in certain light conditions).

Now using armbands does reduce the average distance shots are taken at IMHO. If armbands are drawn into effect, then FPS limits should be lowered. But given the FPS limits we have now I believe that colored uniforms are the best fit to moderate the pain level of being shot. Mind you getting lit up on full auto at 350fps isn't exactly much fun in CQB either.

Jonathan
02-14-2010, 10:29 PM
tan vs green is good. Heck, I dont care if its marpat vs woodland, as long as there is something to identify friendly units and plan in advance for the game. I am not a big fan of not knowing what you are going to do and who you are doing with until 30 minutes before the game. In a milsim environment it makes planning difficult.

Pilgrim
02-14-2010, 11:12 PM
I wouldnt advocate splitting up teams. If a team/group wants to roll together then it shouldnt pose much of an issue with armbands give (this team blue and that team yellow). Its when green and tan are playing with upwards of five or six teams rocking green and one or two in tan that would be the main concern. If every person brought a set of both green and tan camo (Task Force is begining to impliment this anyway) , I would have no problem with this, as it would lead to the same ends. I just feel armbands would lead to not only a more even field of play, but would allow for some variability in the type of loadout you'd want to wear (PMC, shades of gray, etc).

I think some people are envisioning the armbands wrong- more as an inch-thick strip of cloth. The armband I would propose would be 3-4 inches in width in vibrant blue and yellow. I did a few tests today and could see both clearly in the effective ranges of most airsoft weapons. (And Austin, if someone were to cover up their band, shoot em! :D)

Doc
02-15-2010, 02:27 AM
I agree that their are some gray areas when it comes to some camo colors that they can ride the fence between the two. Armbands seem like a good idea then you are limited to armband visibility. How many times have you take a player out with a head shot or body part that you wouldn't be able to see this band, but you can see the color of the headwear or pieces of gear?

I believe in the famous "K.I.S.S." Keep It Simple Stupid... Everyone wants to add this or that to the way we do things to solve a problem. The problem are the camo's that are in this gray area. I think it needs to be simple...either tan or green. If you have to think about what color it could be don't allow it. It needs to be able to identify in battle. I am not saying we have pink, white, orange, but it is easy to distinguished between green and tan as colors...those off variants always become an argument.

Jonathan
02-15-2010, 09:19 AM
Theres a slight problem with the colors considered "gray areas". I know some players who like to be green and hate multicam because they say they cant tell the difference at a distance. But multicam is one of the 2 tan cammos that actually blend with something and dont stick out like a sore thumb. I can deal with Irene being 3 color desert because its urban, and doesnt really matter, but dont aask me to go dcu in the woods, that gives the green side an unfair advantage. If thats the case, then lets go armbands and give the green guys bright pink ones. :P
99% of the time, there isnt a problem, theres blue on blue in everygame, and every instance i have seen its not the uniforms fault, its the guy not paying attention. Someone should ask the question, if its so hard, then how do the multicam guys tell the difference between themselves and the green side? The answer is, its not that hard, and the tan guys know where thier units are.

Now, that being said, the scenario that I see us having to use armbands is if every player starts using multicam and doesnt want to stop and tan becomes soooo huge, its no longer fullfilling the original role (as a smaller or equal sized OPFOR)

Karma
02-15-2010, 09:38 AM
Its less of the tan v green issue and more of side balance issues.

I agree. More teams and players should have a standard practice of bringing both sets. SWC shows up with both sets for that reason, and others.

Okuto
02-15-2010, 12:02 PM
of course it's the panzer uniform. I wouldn't be crazy enough to use the more infamous Waffen SS uniforms, nice and simple me thinks. Plus it's warmer. I've got alot of different black kits but alas green and tan.

Okuto
02-15-2010, 12:09 PM
I am Jewish and I would strongly object to this I am sorry.

I don't own the red armband if that's what you're saying. I use the kit so I try to look the part. I don't agree with the ideals but I use the kit so I try my best to wear what they wear in an unoffensive way. I just wear the uniform doesn't mean I agree with the ideals. team armbands ould be nice as I find green on tan sorta limits what sort of kit we can wear.

I mean alot of my teammates have SWAT kits they can't use cause of the green on tan rule. Plus I've got some blue russian camo I can't use so that ruins my russian kit. So well I'm just trapped using a field grey lance corp. uniform so now

edit_double post sorry

Cholt45
02-15-2010, 12:36 PM
I think Green vs. Tan works perfectly fine. In the games I have played with armbands (old Durham Field) I found them to be a pain in the a$$, and they never stayed on all game.

The majority of my team has invested in both tan and green camo. In fact, we often roll out to larger events packing both sets in case one side is outnumbered. Maybe this wouldn't be bad practice for most teams to try out?

As for SWAT loadouts... if you have a team geared up and ready to go in black, try messaging the game organizers ahead of time for events you want to go to. I am sure that one of them will write a local police force into a scenario and let you guys do your thing.

Amigro
02-15-2010, 01:21 PM
The thing that appeals to me most about airsoft is the realism of it. I didn't play much paintball, if any at all, before I got interested in this, but the emphasis on real uniform loadouts rather than mesh jerseys was very much welcomed. Also, the scenarios were usually (especially realmils) much more interesting.

I like the idea that we could easily switch around teams with armbands, but in reality most of the time the numbers are not an issue. They're are the few occasions when it is and usually when that happens its bad which leads most to believe that it is a major issue.

I think what has already been mentioned should be thought of (getting teams to bring different colors, which a lot already do). I have seen Recondo switch over at least twice to even the teams out. Communication is key too, when your about to flank the enemy, let your team know that you will be in front of the main shooting line. The most important is.... take your time before shooting people. This would alleviate most of the FF instances...

Okuto
02-15-2010, 01:23 PM
really? that'd help as my guys have been spending the last couple of days rebuying gear. I personally am not much of a fan of uniforms past vietnam except for some american and russian kits, I'm a sucker for antique uniforms. If I had it my way I'd go it wearing a British Victorian uniform with pith helmet and all or Wayne's American Legionaries. course can't do that now lol

For the nam game I'm still deciding whether to wear my Grandpa's royal lao army uniform or a vietcong guerilla uniform but in that game I'm sure that'll pass.

Why wouldn't yellow on red work? course you can't use blue as that's not bright enough. If the guys in scotland can do it alright I see no reason not too.

as with amigro. The thing I love about airsoft is that we can basically come in any sort of garb and kits of our choosing. I feel a bit restricted with the current tan on green rule. Lots of kits I can never use due to that

With the WW2 aspect, I like the roleplay aspect as with anyone else. I try to not wear anything offensive, the eagle can't be helped as it's on the uniform itself but things like the red armband are a no-no with me. Does it mean I'm eagle free, no it can't be helped it's a part of the kit so it's there...I don't go all out but that can't be helped. It's not as if their really noticeable though, one has to look pretty hard to see it.

To why I do a german kit it's because I'm a history buff and I enjoy accuracy. I have a japanese kit but there's no airsoft version of their weapons. I really really don't like the thompson(always liked the M1,M2 and BAR more) so I put my 442nd US infantry on hold. To why I choose Waffen SS instead of the regular Heer, it;'s because the SS had an impressive record during the war, only their purpose ruins their name.

Plus even with the Waffen SS kit I try not to do the units that had a stained rep, 1-13 tend to do that. Thus the 33rd is the unit I chose.

Amigro
02-15-2010, 02:29 PM
I think the issue of the German uniform is getting a little off-topic. Like Cholt said, if you have a loadout that does not fall withing the green/tan guidelines, message the game organizer. They may not even have to write in an extra scenario for you and may just stick ya with the tan or green side.

Karma
02-15-2010, 04:08 PM
Has anyone put a detailed list together of all the various camo (I know its alot) and list what airsoft color it falls under - Green or Tan, and black/white?

If not, we should start a thread where EVERYONE can list various camo and what color it is. This would help in putting together a detailed list which we could post somewhere.

-Just a thought.

Edit: If a thread is started, a pic should be attached of every camo pattern. This would make a guide even better for those that do not know patterns.

Kamikaze
02-15-2010, 04:19 PM
We had one on the old forum before the software change. It hasn't been brought over to the new forum as far as I know.

I had someone that was going to do that, but he got busy and hasn't worked on it.

Karma
02-15-2010, 04:24 PM
Jack,

After I see the responce in here, I will either get the old thread or start an new one. I will put together a spreadsheet listing "Como Pattern, Airsoft Color, and a photo of pattern" - something that can easily be added to and changed.

Once that is done, I will get it to you so we can link it to the site somewhere.

Kamikaze
02-15-2010, 04:37 PM
Here's the link to the old forum:

Splat's Newcomers guide to cammo:

http://ncairsoft.org/xforum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4779

bang bang
02-15-2010, 05:13 PM
a few armband WoC games to test proof of concept!

We already did this at a WOC. WIth three teams no less. 30 something people on the field, and only a ducktape wide strip of tape to identify them. Worked out just fine. Dont know of any major FF incidents that day, and no one really badmouthed it during the AAR that I recall.

Side note, we also had a game with almost everyone in green(think 30ish green, 1 multicam, 2 or 3 dcu) No armbands, just relying on knowing your teammates. One side seemed to handle this well, the other less so.

Pilgrim
02-15-2010, 06:45 PM
We already did this at a WOC. WIth three teams no less. 30 something people on the field, and only a ducktape wide strip of tape to identify them. Worked out just fine. Dont know of any major FF incidents that day, and no one really badmouthed it during the AAR that I recall.

Side note, we also had a game with almost everyone in green(think 30ish green, 1 multicam, 2 or 3 dcu) No armbands, just relying on knowing your teammates. One side seemed to handle this well, the other less so.

Well there would be a proof of concept, and with minimal backlash! Combine this with the ability to manipulate team size as you see fit and the idea as a whole is reinforced.

Zebco
02-15-2010, 08:27 PM
IMO,

While wearing ACU, the color of your GEAR (Plate Carrier) should decide your team.

I really dont have a problem like some people with MC, the only problem is when people buy this cheap china crap and it looks green....I recall a few times where I though people were wearing woodland until 2nd glance.

Armbands.....no....Keep G vs. T

bang bang
02-15-2010, 09:57 PM
While wearing ACU, the color of your GEAR (Plate Carrier) should decide your team.


not to be feisty, but I know if I think of it right away, so will someone with the intent to abuse it.

What if you wear just ACU, with no gear? The only airsoft I have been involved in lately has been cqb at clemmons, and New City at WOC. Neither place I wear any gear, generally im running around with a pistol stuffing mags in my pockets. Or your rig looks like mine? Green base with tons of tan pouches.

ACU just needs to be solidly placed on tan or green, and make sure that the color is enforced as much as possible.

Truth is neither way is perfect. Armbands have as many flaws as Green vs Tan. The only way it ever gets better is when people suck it up and deal. Cant tell what team hes on? Then your not close enough. Their uniform not clearly green or tan? Shoot them. They dont like it they should have shown up wearing something that identifies them as green or tan.

Gravitytester
02-16-2010, 11:27 AM
Here is a new guy thought on this. Know your enemy. Know what uniforms are considered Tan and which ones are green. It is usually spelled out pretty clearly before hand. Identify your target before you squeeze the trigger, that is a basic rule of combat. On the subject of balancing out the teams. So what if the numbers are not the same, they seldom are in real life. It is a challenge to be on a outnumbered team and still get the job done. I would rather be on the outgunned team. You get a chance to see just how good you are. Don't read into this, I am not saying it should be 100 vs 10. Most events have preregistration and if the numbers are to far off the even organizer should recognize that and ask for volunteers to move from the larger side to the smaller side. It works, I have seen it work.

I say leave it the way it is tan vs green. For the people with historical or urban type camo, ask the event organizer if they can work your team into the scenario. That was mentioned in a earlier post. Like it was said before, it is not a perfect system but it seems to be the best one available right now

Doc
02-17-2010, 07:57 PM
Either way we go we will have issues... I always been taught to identify your target before pulling the trigger.

Every game before it starts you get to see what each side is wearing.

I have been shot by friendly fire before and the person shot me was a current military personnel. Did I get mad? Nope...It was just miscommunication and I was going from building to building taking out the enemy by myself for the rest of fire team was taken out.

I have even been shot in the ass by my own side and I was stationary behind cover. :scared: I think they mistaken me as the opposite side for I pop up where I was so quickly.

I see where the need for armbands would be better in some sense and in others a hinder. I think the event coordinator would have to make judgment call on the need depending on the event setup like CQB or large field action.

GYPSYMOB
02-18-2010, 03:58 PM
Well there went 15min of my life I will never get back......I know this debate was going to suck like every single time its brought up and I still read it....its like being in the cast of jackass......you know its going to hurt but you still do it. The best thing to do if you don't like the current system is just put on a game of your own with your own spin on it. You will learn so much in so little time. Now excuse me while I go do an ass bong.:scared:

LiLEviL USMC
02-18-2010, 04:47 PM
Lol Gypsy, I have to agree I'm pretty pissed I actually read through yet another rambling of the same crap that sprngs up at least once a month. It goes from green vs tan to nazi uniforms in a blink of an eye. In my own opinion it doesn't matter what people wear, some jackass on my team is still going to ff me regardless because they are simply trigger happy (fulda comes heavily to mind). Win brought up a great point about the realmil with the three teams with three seperate col, no problems at all. If u have uniforms that don't fit the g vs t gig then contact a organizer beforehand or set up your own game with those colors included. Damn how did I get sucked into this shit

BoogerRed
02-18-2010, 04:49 PM
Well piss on you green and tanners. I'm busting out the bright orange urbans before you know it.

Win
02-21-2010, 03:28 PM
Well lets just do it like we did in High School. Shirts vs skins. One team just play without shirts on so you can spray away as soon as you see bare skin. Plus you don't have to worry about camo. Just show up with a pair of shorts on and a highcap in the weapon and one in the back pocket and pray away. Its cheap. Takes very little brain power, and is easy to do. You still need eye pro and a water carrier. I guess it would need to be nude camo pattern.

Vegas
02-21-2010, 05:37 PM
why not gun bands? I mean, I think the main concern about the armbands was it was easily hidden, well, if its on the guns, you can't be shot at unless they are pointing their gun at you.

Amigro
02-22-2010, 09:10 PM
Well lets just do it like we did in High School. Shirts vs skins. One team just play without shirts on so you can spray away as soon as you see bare skin. Plus you don't have to worry about camo. Just show up with a pair of shorts on and a highcap in the weapon and one in the back pocket and pray away. Its cheap. Takes very little brain power, and is easy to do. You still need eye pro and a water carrier. I guess it would need to be nude camo pattern.

But then you have to look at the moral question of fairness. Take for example myself... I am a shining beacon of light when I take my shirt off. The opposing team would have a distinct disadvantage when I come into view and burn their retinas...

Win
02-23-2010, 06:30 PM
But then you have to look at the moral question of fairness. Take for example myself... I am a shining beacon of light when I take my shirt off. The opposing team would have a distinct disadvantage when I come into view and burn their retinas...

This could be said of a lot of us that play the game. But you got to say it would stop the guys that want to wear arm bands. Put them on the skin team. Really how hard is it to look at a target and ID it, Then shoot it. If you can't tell the difference then get your eyes checked.

Pilgrim
02-23-2010, 06:56 PM
This could be said of a lot of us that play the game. But you got to say it would stop the guys that want to wear arm bands. Put them on the skin team. Really how hard is it to look at a target and ID it, Then shoot it. If you can't tell the difference then get your eyes checked.

I dont think the main issue with instituting armbands would be the ambiguity of the colors as much as it would be the ability to wear what you want, as well as mix up the teams in whatever way you want. The armbands are merely an avenue with which to do this.

Puppet Master
02-24-2010, 09:21 AM
Up in Maryland we had 3 ways of separating the teams.



1. Armbands.

This allowed anyone to wear whatever they want. It also allowed for a more "even" amount of newer players on both sides, due to most newer players owning Woodland BDU's. It would also allow for more "even" teams. Armbands were usually used at a Winds of Change type of game.


2. Uniform based

This is what we use now. One color on one side, barring ACU which no one wore. ACU was usually used as an "admin" camo more of the time.


3. Mix/match

For the small one day games with about 15-25 people, it was a general mix/match of uniforms. Knowing who was on your side was important to avoid friendly fire.


All three worked, it all depends on who's running the game. Armbands never stood out as much and it forced people to identify/confirm their targets before firing. To the people that claim people can hide it, here is what we did. Tape on both arms on the outermost wear or placed on vests. The rest, we know how they work.

Kamikaze
02-24-2010, 09:25 AM
Armbands never stood out as much and it forced people to identify/confirm their targets before firing.

My question is... If the armbands "forced people to identify/confirm their targets before firing.", why can't we expect the same with uniform differentiation?

It seems like the cry for armbands is an attempt to "dumb-down" the ideal of airsoft.

Karma
02-24-2010, 09:51 AM
Being verification seems so hard for many, as well as learning to identify camo patterns, let's just let the arm bands become the uniforms.

One side can wear neon blue shirts and pants and the other wear neon pink shirts and pants.

(For those that do not know me, I am, of course, joking!!!) I just think some are making more out of this than is needed. Just buy and wear the correct camo, learn to verify camo patterns on the field, and at least try to match your utilities with your rigs.

Fluke
02-24-2010, 10:09 AM
im still wondering why this has gone on for 6 pages with the same result it had in the first two pages.

Smirnov
02-24-2010, 10:19 AM
We can do it Old School Cowboy, White hats VS Black Hats. :P "I cant tell who to shoot!!!:( " Then dont pul the trigger!!!

Romeo98
02-24-2010, 10:36 AM
My take on this is...
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b30/Romeo1759/cylon-evolution.jpg

that's all I have to say about that...

:b-d-h::b-d-h:

Amigro
02-24-2010, 12:38 PM
My take on this is...
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b30/Romeo1759/cylon-evolution.jpg

that's all I have to say about that...

:b-d-h::b-d-h:

Where is he striking that donkey?! That's just wrong, regardless if it's dead or not...

Jonathan
02-24-2010, 12:53 PM
Hey this debate is pretty mild, lets keep this one going and avoid any of the really controversial ones...:yes:

drenlan
03-03-2010, 01:54 PM
One of the reasons we like to come down to NC from VA is because of the rules of the NCAO

If you have a smaller game it's easy to go with "knowing your team mates", armbands (gunbands), code words, etc.

But the large games that happen in NC there are always hardcore, novice, new, and causal players playing with large numbers. I believe Tan vs. Green helps keep these large games from turning into a mess. I also have ran events with the Tan vs. Green base set with the understanding that Light Colored camo or colors are "Tan" (including White, brown, light blue) and "Green" is Dark colored camo or colors (including black and navy)

If there is a over load of players Multicam, ACU, or "Solid" Colors can be moved around to even teams

TYLER CLINTON
03-21-2010, 05:51 PM
are you aloud acu if your on the green side because its greenish

Thunderstorm
03-21-2010, 05:54 PM
are you aloud acu if your on the green side because its greenish

ACU along with Multi-Cam is a Tan color, real ACU should look more tan than green.

Smirnov
03-21-2010, 06:00 PM
JUST BAN ACU and be done with it! make it a judges unifrom.

Thunderstorm
03-21-2010, 06:04 PM
JUST BAN ACU and be done with it! make it a judges unifrom.

That what I'm trying to say, REAL ACU does not look green after a few games and trips to the wash. Not nearly as much as Multi-Cam does. Besides that banning the current US field camo would set plenty of us back $100 or so buying new camo.

Smirnov
03-21-2010, 07:01 PM
That what I'm trying to say, REAL ACU does not look green after a few games and trips to the wash. Not nearly as much as Multi-Cam does. Besides that banning the current US field camo would set plenty of us back $100 or so buying new camo.

Yeah but it would spare the Rest of us the endless "ACU should be green/tan" comments, Fear not, You guys in the Wanna-be ranger ranks will soon need to buy multi-cam as it is already being issued for Afghan deployment Units.
I like it up here, US=ACU And marpat
Badguys = everyone else!

Splatmaster
03-21-2010, 07:04 PM
JUST BAN ACU and be done with it! make it a judges unifrom.

Are you being sarcastic? Thats the way it used to be up until last year, because many people still want to use ACU's. No point in banning a uniform, it is the most distinctive color pattern out there, EVERYONE can see it! Leave it tan, let it be...

Smirnov
03-21-2010, 07:59 PM
Are you being sarcastic? Thats the way it used to be up until last year, because many people still want to use ACU's. No point in banning a uniform, it is the most distinctive color pattern out there, EVERYONE can see it! Leave it tan, let it be...

Agreed, leave it tan! But can we stop the "ACU should be Green" crap? I mean every 30 days or less the same old song. If not then, YES ban it

Kamikaze
03-21-2010, 09:30 PM
JUST BAN ACU and be done with it! make it a judges unifrom.

It USED TO BE the ref uniform. So many people bitched that the TLC went ahead and approved it as Tan.

Smirnov
03-21-2010, 09:39 PM
:lol::lol: That is Funny!

Chiller
08-12-2011, 05:32 PM
^this seems like the best idea to me

Zen
08-12-2011, 05:52 PM
Dude...SERIOUS necro-post lol

That thread has been idle for 18 months ;)

Fix
08-12-2011, 10:00 PM
I like turtles!

Jonathan
08-13-2011, 07:51 AM
i like round turtles, much cooler than the square ones!....

Fix
08-13-2011, 10:32 AM
Star shaped turtles!